These two questions haunt me almost every day. It usually goes like this:
Me: “You’ve got a free hour today, shall I go MS?”
“When was the last time I went?”
“If I go, how much can I do?”
The questions are motivated by fear, without a doubt. Fear of missing out on income or miles earning opportunity or fear of pushing it too hard with a retailer, or worse yet, a card company and getting banned. It happens every Staples Fee-free Visa Week to me.
The temptation of Staples fee-free week
I’m always the first one in the store on Sunday morning at the start of a fee-free week. I’ve never been denied my full load of $2,000 that early in the week. The thinking is that maybe the clerks haven’t been told there is a limit this week.
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I go back around Wednesday and hit them again, usually in the afternoon so I run into a different clerk than the Sunday morning one and grab another $2,000. But now it’s Saturday morning and the promo ends at the end of the day. Do I hit it just one more time for another 10K Ultimate Rewards points?
That example asks both questions: How much and how often?
4X at Sam’s Club
The 4X Amex bonus at Sam’s Club til December 31 asks the same questions but for a different reason. In the Staples case, I also use my Ink card to pay my phone and cable bill so I don’t look suspicious (or so I think).
But the Sam’s Club deal works best with the Blue Business Plus Credit Card from American Express and there is no limit that I’ve found yet on how much I can buy at one time.
Do I get $500 on each of our cards or $750? After $500, the Dosh bonus is maxed out for the trip, but 4X Amex points + 2 for the Blue Business Plus Card is nice for the $4.88 card fee. And I only use the Blue Business Plus Card for this promo at Sam’s.
Gift card purchase limits?
Am I striking any cords here? Or do we need to find me a straight jacket?
I know some of you walk into a Simon Mall. Do their rules and regulations tell you how much you can buy? Do they tell you how often you can buy? Or how far your credit card company will let you go?
And buying gift cards online via shopping portals is the same way. I know some of them have maximum order sizes, but do any of them limit how often, with reasonable numbers? Isn’t there one that limits purchases to $60,000 per month? I can’t fathom those kinds of volume numbers. I try to limit my online orders to two per month per product be, it Staples or Giftcards.com. How about you guys?
Liquidation
And then we move on to liquidating the gift cards. I have two grocery stores that I use primarily that have good ink in their money order machines, so I can mobile deposit. And then we have to ask ourselves:
How many money orders can I ask for a Grocery store A today? What clerk will be working?
Two money order outlets seem to be enough for me and my volume, as I can go in the morning shift or afternoon shift. That gives me four different faces and I usually manufacture spend three times a week.
Data points
The best part about Ariana’s blog is the commonality of our interest here, combined with the diversity of our locations and manufactured spending methods.
I know somebody in this group can give another opinion on how hard they are hitting this Amex Sam’s Club deal. It’s new, I know, but an early success data point can be very helpful to the rest of us.
I want to go buy three $250 gift cards today on both our credit cards. It would be so much easier to pull the trigger if somebody reports they already have successfully OR admits it got them shut down.
Same deal with Simon Mall, Staples, regular grocery store purchases, Amex Gold cards being cut off from paying on gift cards? We are way better as a community sharing our stories than trying to do this alone.
I hope some of you PointChaser readers are at the Chicago Seminars this year. Please say hello if you are. I’d love to buy you a drink or coffee and share the lessons we have learned.
Slow and steady wins the game? Or am I the only sucker here?
I don’t know. I’ve heard the cliche: “it’s a marathon not a sprint” so many times. But if I adhered to that in all cases I would have been a fool. It’s case by case.
I used to believe that but I realized that there are always going to be bad apples that ruin it. So to answer your question, I no longer believe in the statement “slow and steady wins the game”. Whether you hit it super hard and not even that hard when the ban stick comes, it affects both parties.
Perfect example was BB/Serve when the first wave of bans occurred in Jan 2016. People who didnt max out $5K/mo were also banned including those that have maxed $5K/mo and used the funds to pay their CC’s for 3 years. Now those that are new or still have BB/Serve and “play it slow” with BB/Serve are constantly pins and needles being paranoid of when the next shutdown will happen including those that constantly open and close cards. Its just not worth it because that avenue is essentially burned.
Same with the WM MO game over the years where it evolved from only >$3K to fill out a form to now >$1K to fill out the form to now being banned for over $1K.
MS for a certain avenue never gets “better” over time but only gets worse. If I had adhered to this advice since the beginning I would have lost soo much in rewards potential if I played it slow.
Rick I think we all have the same thoughts you express. I think you just started the most important subject for all in the hobby.
I have become much more aggressive this year. I already had one bank shutdown for MOs. No cc sds yet this year.
Simon Mall doesn’t care about MS. I put the reason for buying the gcs as MS on the form. I call in advance for the lady to prepare 10 – 25k before I arrive. I split payments across 3-7 cards. No issues there.
But Staples (or OD for me) is always a concern as I have 2 5x Chase cards in my name. I do about 4K on each card per month to max out over the year. When OD has a sale like last week I go in every day and buy $400 worth on each card. I even tell the manager what I’m doing. He thinks it’s cool.
Sam’s Club deal has me wondering how much. Last week I went in 4 times and bought $500 each time on my Amex Platinum. Since this only lasts til Dec 31, I think I’ll hit it 3 – 4 times per week for that amount until then. But I am worried about a FR from Amex. If they shut me down it would hurt.
Liquidation is not an issue. I have so many WMs and grocery stores around me I can stop at 10 or more on my way home for MOs.
My biggest concern now is depositing the MOs and more bank sds.
Right now I am probably doing a total of 60-90k per month. Hancock shut me down a few weeks ago. I spoke with the bank manager and explained there’s nothing nefarious here, but she said she didn’t want that kind of business as I wasn’t using for ordinary banking.
I hope to hear other people’s data points.
Rick, great topic.
I do about $60-90k total per month. I’ve had one bank sd. Hancock shut me down a few weeks ago.
I have two Chase 5x cards and I put 4000 each month on each in the 5x categories. I use these cards exclusively at 5x and have for years without issue.
When Staples (OD for me) has a sale like last week I go in nearly every day and buy $400 on each card. I tell the manager what I’m doing and he’s cool with it.
I worry about this Sam’s Club thing. I went in 4 times last week and bought $500 worth each time. I’ll probably do 3-4 trips per week til year end and hope no sd. Amex sd would hurt.
Simon Mall no issue. They don’t care. I tell them what I’m doing. I buy $9-25k each time and spilt payment over several cards.
Liquidation no issue as I pass 10 or more grocery stores or WMs on my way home. I don’t hit anyone place too hard to avoid suspicion.
My biggest concern now is more bank sds but I don’t know why. There’s plenty of banks around! Just a hassle to open new accounts.
My strategy is almost identical to yours. I buy $25,000 worth at SM twice a month and manage to get rid of $8,000 – $10,000 on the drive home here in WMT saturated country and the rest the next day. I have 3 bank accounts I spread out the money orders to. I have the Chase Ink Cash card for the 5X categories at office supply stores and also pay my cable and internet bill with it. $400 per day is the max I’ve been able to buy at Staples the last 3 times due to the manager dropping the hammer on the cashiers. I used to be able to buy $2,000 per day previously for a 60,000 UR points week. I’ve found GoBank is easy and cost free for the Staples $200 VGC’s.
I also buy $2,450 worth every week at Giftcards.com through the AAdvantage eShopping portal merely because I get 2X the miles that way. That amount is easy to liquidate at a grocery store nearby.
What is GoBank?
Today I took the $200 and $250 cards to Simon and used as partial payments. So essentially converting them to $1000 gcs for easier liquidation. It adds about an extra $1 cost per card but worth it to me for simplification.
Read Ariana’s article.
https://www.pointchaser.com/guide/gobank-card-manufactured-spending/
@Ed C. How is GoBank easy and free to dump the 200’s from Staples or ODOM?
I bought 10k last week and dumped them all at WM via my BB.
Just want to make sure I’m not missing something here.
Thanks!
My local Staples only lets me buy 2 per day during the fee free sales. GoBank loads are free at WMT. I buy 2 VGC’s at Staples then stop at my (very) friendly WMT NHM on the way home and load them on GoBank. Free and easy.
@Eric. Thanks for the tip on Go Bank! I am new to this game and hitting my BB’s hard @ 5k a month. It’s nice to know I have another liquidation method when these get shutdown someday. Thanks again
@Archene GoBank is essentially the same as BB when it comes to dumping them at WM. It is just a different avenue.
Also people talk about GoBank more nowadays since most of us have been banned since 2016 when it was no holds bar without any issues or concerns about shutdown with loading and unloading of funds. You are lucky to have a BB still.
What do you do with the CIC after you’ve met the $25,000 max spend per year for the 5% bonus?
Mines $50k. And I have a $25k back up card as well
Well dang it! My one and only CIC opened in March 2018 has this on the UR page. I’m waiting until November for my total Chase velocity to slow down for a self referral for my 2nd.
“You’ll earn 1% cash back per $1 on every purchase — plus an additional 4% cash back (5% total cash back) per $1 on the first $25,000 spent in combined purchases at any of these categories each account anniversary year: office supply stores and on cellular phone, landline, internet and cable TV services. $1,000 cash back annual maximum.”
RB: Rick i is talking about the Chase Ink Plus that is discontinued and replace by Chase Ink Cash.
CIC Chase Ink Cash
CIP Chase Ink Plus (defunct)
CIP Chase Ink Prefer
CIB Chase Ink Bold (defunct, belived to be converted to CIP sometime in 2017)
Enough will only be when you can no longer do it because of people’s greed
Both of my Chase card to go to $50,000. That’s why I do 4000 per month.
Rick, I appreciate your posts. You address the needs and concerns of the average points & mile player. No fluff, no overwater villas, no sales pitches. Thanks.
Yep, you are not alone. I woke up an hour before I needed to, this morning, thinking about Gift Cards. It was still dark on the east coast, but I was making coffee and planning today’s liquidation of a too big stack of cards. Back to back week promotions at Office Max, combined with Simon Mall availability near my new home. $200 swipes make me feel “small time”. “ I’d like one money order for $799.12, and I’d like to split pay, $200 on the first debit card.” I tell the WM clerk, as I hang my head in shame, and hope there’s no one in line with a fat stack of Simon Mall 1,000’s looking down at me. But, I have to remind me each swipe is another 1,000 ultimate rewards points.
Thanks for the Dosh tip awhile back, I did well at Kroger while it lasted. Sam’s is not showing up on my Dosh merchants, I do have the Amex extra 4X , so I may drive over there and check offers in the parking lot. Maybe location services will be my friend.
While I’m thanking you, I did get my 60,000 AA miles from Barclay, despite having the card before, so did DW.
Jim, congratulations on double dipping Barclays. We have not been as lucky.
Rick
My goal is 100-125 k a month. Simon Mall is my main store. I got burned at OD on the last sale, two $200 grocery Everywhere were not activated, losing me a little under $400. I’m done with OD gift cards, I’ll hit staples occasionally but they limit to $400 per visit.
Call the number on the back of those two $200’s. You’ll get them replaced. A pita but at least not a big loss
Why would you be losing out when OD failed to activate your 2x $200 cards? Can’t you take back to OD to activate or get your money back?
This is something I have always wondered — how do we make sure the cards are activated upon checking out?
When I went to purchase a gc from a grocery store my card rejected it because it couldn’t get it activated
Go to a different grocery store chain
How can OD fail to activate the cards? Are people not checking their cards after they purchase them shortly after leaving the store to ensure the funds are on there?
I read these blogs and learn so much. But I am still pretty conservative and main reason is I have only two places that I can move Gift Cards for Money order. And though both are not far, both are not close. I have 5 WalMarts within ten square miles and really only of them I can do either Amex Serve or Money Orders. I had a grocery close by, that stopped. Many of the Walmarts do not – so I don’t want to over play my hand. I mean, if I could go to more grocery stores or walmarts, I would be maximizing more .. I have only been in this since February and learning a lot so will continue with our slow conservative plan that works for my wife and I. But I appreciate the feedback.
Bob, my suggestion is to stay where you’re comfortable. We learn this game over time and you’ll get a feel when you can increase your activity. Be patient with yourself
Thanks Rick. I actually just got my own Chase Cash Ink yesterday. Had been using my wifes. So last week at Staples and Office Max/Depot – just one card. So next month when this promotion hits – will be able to double up. Also, will be applying for Plastiq soon to maximize both our home mortgage and our real estate mortgages (thats where having a business has really helped with this credit card process – who knew!). Cannot pay a mortage with Plastiq so having that will increase our “points” So we are slowly making our way and learning more, I enjoy it – uses my analytical side plus I have the free time even working fulltime. Its been a nice “hobby” to come across this year.
Bob – Just be aware, if you aren’t already, that you can only pay a mortgage on Plastiq with a Mastercard or Discover card. No VISA or AmEx.
Sorry Rick – mistyped. Brain thinking faster than fingers it seems! Yes, we will be applying for a MasterCard soon There are a couple good promotions now with Barclays and Citi for business cards we will take advantage of. Or Try too.
Anybody thinking about getting GC from Sam’s online? Not be able to utilize the dosh but could save some hassle.
At 206.48 (max denom is 200, local store is either 250 or 500). It’s a wash without dosh IMHO. I have it on 1x cards, so 5x for me. BBP didn’t get it. no 6x.
You all are very lucky, I am in California in san Bernardino’s county and I am unable to liquidate as the 6 closest walmarts don’t allow the usage of the visa giftcards to pay for money orders or to load go bank accounts. Additionally, I have not found any supermarkets that allow the usage of debit in general to purchase money orders. So I am just relegated to purchasing giftcards and paying with them at non bonus category purchases.
For me I just want to maximize the office supply 5x on my ink card, so I only wanted to MS when it’s no fee at staples or OD. So the automatic killer when going to walmart or any where is split payment because they automatically know giftcards are being used.
That sucks that San Bernadino county WM’s are not friendly to VGCs. I am glad that I don’t live in that area.
I checked out my local Sam’s club after reading Rick’s post. The max denom MGC there was 20-250/4.88, does your local Sam’s store has 500 VGC/MGCs? If so, how much is fee. Dosh didn’t post 4% on the purchase.
Rick, You mentioned that you buy a card for $250 and a fee of $4.88 in Sam’s Club. Is this correct? I only see $200 visa cards for $6.95 fee.
Just bought two more $250 each. $4.88 fee
wooohooo, me too x2!! and some of those knock off chic-fil-a sandwiches since they finally had them restocked.
I will be at the Chicago seminars. .. I’m in for a drink. Would love to share my techniques and pick your brain. Simon is bummer cuz ur only getting 1x points and it’s not the easiest liquidating. I buy boatload of gift cards at 4x or 5x then it’s worth it imo. If liquidating was getting easier it would be different story.
I use the 2% cash back cards for Simons so at least its still better than the 1x points that most people are using.
How was the Chicago seminar? haven’t seen any articles/posts with highlights..
“The 4X Amex bonus at Sam’s Club til December 31′
I’ve gone twice so far purchasing $1250 each time. Second time the cashier and asst. manager tried to tell me I cant use a credit card according to the GM. I said fine, refund my Sam’s membership. They relented I guess they were bluffing. Are there any threads about AmEx rewards abuse? I’m wondering how hard I can hit this deal.
May I know if you were buying Visa gc in Sam’s? I remember its Visa is not MetaBank issued but Vanilla only . How do you liquidate non-Meta Visa?
Some of us are able to do this through MOs in grocery stores since WM is not an option.
I was at Sam’s yesterday, they have total self-service check out now, were you able to buy MGC VGC in self-service?
No self serve for me. Clerk must enter gift card amount
Thanks for your helpful posts. I’m new to this stuff all over again…I purchased/donated a lot of Nutrigrain bars and Eggo Waffles back in the day to get me, my wife and a few friends to AA Lifetime Platinum. We also did our fair share of Citibank balance transfers, Goldpoints magazine subscriptions and the KLM Flying Dutchmen points match mileage run, which was really sweet (by far our best ratios ever). Then, I got busy with life, kids and business, so miles accumulation got put on the back burner. I’ve missed out on quite a bit apparently.
Not sure why, but right now it feels like I’m trying to make up for lost time….I try to hit $50-60k a week during Staples or OD promotions this year. I put these purchases on Amex Simply Cash + 5% back. I have 3 of them. No Chase Ink yet because of the 5/24 dynamic. I also have a bunch of 3% cash back cards at office supply purchases with no annual limits.
We don’t have a SM where we live, but I fly regularly to Vegas where I can hit up 4 SMs in the same day and do $25k at each one. Caesar’s Palace will let me buy $25k for me and $25k for my wife now, so I’ve actually been doing either $125k or $250k a month since the $1k cards became an option. I have a decent limit on 3 cash back cards for those purchases: Fidelity, Spark and Arrival +.
I’m trying to ramp up GCM to the max monthly for both me and my wife. I have been using my Rakuten Visa mostly but also mix in Alliant and Amex BBP. We both have AMEX Gold cards and maxed out the $25k from grocery stores, so it was perfect timing with the Sam’s / Dosh deal. My plan is to buy $500 each day on 4 different AMEX cards where both promos are active. Will be trying it out this weekend to see how it works, not planning to do too much volume here. I also maxed out the 4x on $150k in shipping charges on my AMEX Business Gold, so I’m trying to determine if I should add a 2nd one to my wife’s account. Is that $150k limit an annual or anniversary limit?
When you start to add it up, in addition to regular organic spend, it can translate to a decent amount of miles and family vacations / memories. Well worth the effort. Makes we wonder just a bit what might have been….
Hope that helps and thanks again for your and Ariana’s insights.
Does anyone earn the point by using Citi Double Cash with giftcardmall purchase?
Rick, Who are you using for mobile deposits?